so i am wondering...

what you think of this octuplet mom?

Me? I live under the general idea that your ability and "right" to make bad choices ends where another persons rights begins. In this case, that would be her children. My heart breaks for those kids...each born with the "job" of filling some hole in their mother's heart...that she admits. Don't even get me started on the fact that she has no job, no husband and already had six kids to start with (that she wasn't and was unable to support on her own)...She claims to be a Christian but it seems to me that she picks and chooses what she wants to live by...yes children ARE a blessing from God and God blessed man with the ability to do IVF...but what about her accountability in how she uses these blessings? What about the doctor in question?? God created food too but that can be abused as well...Yes, she loves her children...but that will not fill their bellies, clothe them or give them what they need in life. Her bad choices are one thing...but now their are 14 lives that have to live with the consequences of those choices. And THAT is what breaks my heart.

Just for the record, I am not anti IVF in any way...I believe that God gives man talents and abilities to use to help each other out and this is definitely one of them. And I know that there are other families on TV that have large families...but the difference is that they are equipped with a mom and a dad...and an income!

So what do you think? I know I usually avoid controversial topics here but I thought this would make for a lively conversation piece...please be nice so that I can do this again in the future. :)

xoxo
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40 comments:

Amy Bell said...

it is such a catch 22.....i agree with the fact that she did not want to destroy the babies...i do. but, in the situation....you have to think of the stress on her parents...her kids. she admitted that she did it for her own "needs" so sad...so sad for the kiddos. it is just so much...so much. one of closest girls growing up had 10 kids in the family...it was fun to go over there. but, it took lots and lots of work...i just feel so sad for the other kiddos. and, her mother seems angry. sad.

My crazy crazy life said...

Oh man, don't even get me started. Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that she used to work in a psyche ward. I agree with you...having children is a privledge and we should not abuse that. She had no right bringing all those children into a world under such harsh conditions. Even more so, she endangered their lives by implanting so many in there. Very sad!

elmaelsiena said...

This is very sad. I wonder why she feels the need to love and want so many children. I would lose my mind with 14 little kids under 8. I hope these kids get the love and attention they deserve and that her church helps her with them.As for calling yourself a Christian people say that they are Christian but they pick the BIBLE apart so that they twist it and tweak it until they like it so it fits in thier lifestlye. The BIBLE states clearly that marriage should be between a man and a women look what we have today? We need to read the BIBLE and apply it to our lives not change it to fit us. Oh we could go on and on. How many women out there choose to have children by themselves because they are running out of time and haven't found mr right. I don't know this is truely a messed up world and some times we choose to do what we want and not what GOD wants us to do. But we know that we all will have to answer to GOD for our choices in the end.

Alyssa said...

i came to your blog from meg's. love it! i think she has baby OCD. it seems kinda mental.

Crystal said...

I agree with not destroying the embryos...but what about donating them? I am sure that there are tons of women out there who would have gladly taken them!

Alyssa said...

i headed straight over to your shop & picked up some magnets! cant wait!

Margaret said...

I feel so sorry for the children. I don't think she should have don IVF with 6 children already and no way of taking care of them. I could see it if she met someone and they got married and were unable to have children together. I can see then her having more children if they could support them, but not for the reasons she has listed.
We went two weeks ago to see the Christion Power Team. One of them came to our church and preached on Sunday morning since they were in town. He talked about you can't be a luke warm Christian. You have to take all of what the Bible says. God says to be hot or cold not warm.

Smith Family Blog said...

Actually, this is my area at work (I should be in the Wash. Times today or tomorrow). I think what everybody is missing here is that the critical contributing factor is that there are NO REGULATIONS on the IVF/ART industry. It is totally self-regulated. We don't know what this woman was told/wasn't told. At this time, there are no rules that govern what women are told about the risks, success, etc. Her doctor should be the one under fire.

And yes, she could have donated-- but could you have donated embryos, knowing they were your own children? I know I couldn't.

And I cannot judge a person for wanting children, even though they can't afford them. What kind of a test is that? So, if you can't afford children, you shouldn't try and have them? Where would that put MOST of us?

Moreover, I can't judge someone for having multiple kids through IVF/ART. I have NO IDEA what it is like not to be able to conceive, and I doubt most of the people commenting on here do, either. What would that do to my emotions? My state of mind? My desperation? Once I was able to have children, it just might push me to want to have all that I can.

And to clear up a few things-- she doesn't have a job because 1) she was injured in a hospital riot where she worked (so, does that mean people on disability shouldn't be able to have children?), and 2) she is pursuing a masters (should people pursuing an education not be able to have children?).

I think people, particularly Christians, need to be wary in passing judgment on this woman. It is a very sad situation, but one where I think Jesus would run to her and comfort her and try to help her along-- not throw stones.

Two final points: 1) she could have discarded the embryos, and she choose not to; and 2) she was encouraged to abort a few, and she chose not to. That is what I call God using a bad situation for His good.

I pray these children grow up to be amazing people and prove the world wrong.

Smith Family Blog said...

One final thought-- she says she is a Christian, and we can't ever really know that. There are a lot of people out there who claim to be and aren't. And if she's not-- we cannot hold her accountable in the same way we hold people that DO know the truth. We need to love her into the Truth.

Crystal said...

According to her she was told the risk of having multiples...and the difference between us not being able to afford children and her is that we don't already have 6 children that we are not paying for at home. I think there is a difference between being not being able to afford children and already having six that you aren't affording and trying for more.
And she admits to putting HER issues onto her kids...so they are born with a job...that is sad to me.

And when she gets her masters the most she can make is 40--60 thousand...it will cost 3-4 times that per year to be able to take care of all of those kids IF they are healthy.

:)

Crystal said...

And a p.s. :)

I am trying hard to withhold my judgment of HER (like I said, she is free to make whatever decisions she wants that DON"T affect another person)...but I have a huge (social working) soft spot for kids and have seen more than my share of kids who suffer because of the actions of their parents...to me this is just another sad example.

Traci said...

Some have said they respect her for not getting rid of any of the "babies". Well,how about if we arent implanted in the first place since we have SIX kids at home and NO husband??? This lady really, truly upsets me. The Dr. needs to lose is license or be financially accountable for each baby til they are 18!!! He can pick which one. She now has a website where you can GIVE her money to help raise the babies that she decided to have implanted in her when she had 6 at home and NO JOB. One at of the older children is autistic by the way. To me, this is not love, this child neglect. She is selfish and to think people are handing her money...apparently the website has made 60,000 so far and it just went up not too long ago. Shes better than Obama at thinking of a stimulus plan!!! Yea, Im not impressed.

KATY826 said...

Did you see her website?

http://www.thenadyasulemanfamily.com/

Chelsea Ling said...

I am not sure what to think of her. I feel she should have donated her emryos. I think her children should also be adopted by a family that can take care of them, even if it means splitting them up.

Personally, I don't believe religion should be a factor here. I think everyone has a right to have as many babies as they like in whatever place she is in in life (single, gay, etc) AS LONG AS they have the means to care for them.

Laurie said...

It was a really really bad personal decision on the part of a mentally ill woman. I think the doctor is the one who needs to be held accountable and looks like he will have his medical license reviewed. Maybe the state should file a civil suit against him to recover some of the costs to care for the children?

The only problem I have is at what point do you tell people they can and can't have that many children? Even if it is clearly a bad choice, do we want the government to step in and tell us how many children we can have or what we can do with embryos? How far do you let that go? I'm an attorney, so my legal mind starts thinking of those consequences too.

It is a catch 22, the welfare of the children vs. the interference by the government, which in my opinion our government is heading in that direction and it scares me.

elmaelsiena said...

I agree with the smith family. I don't think I could have given my eggs away. WE need to pray for her that the guides her and I hope her church helps her and supports her.We have eight children and you should hear the nasty comment speople give us Don't you know about irth control? Do you know were babies come from?? Are they ALL from the same father?? We have been blessed from God with these children and they all go to a private school and we get NO gov help or help from anyone.And by the way you can have billions of dollars and have children that are selfish and horrible. The BIBLE clearly states Don't judge so lets paray for this women and her children:)

I am am a therapist said...

okay okay.... i was not going to comment, but I have to because i keep seeing this no husband thing and I am going to burst. I warn you, i am about to contradict myself over and over, because I have my opinions but feel like its not my place to impose my will.....

Is there a chance that these kids will be a bit messed up? sure. but it is the same with all kids, with 1 or 2 parents, rich or poor. We do not live in the 1920s people- plenty of single parents. Its not for me to say that she needs a man to have kids. SOme of the best parents I know are single parents.

My personal opinion is that she made a poor choice to fill her own personal needs. But, people do this every day. I dont think we should fault people for having children without the socially expected accessories, but I do think that just like with gastric bypass surgery there should be some sort of psychological testing before IVF. I imagine it would screen out most people like her.

As someone with a masters in psychology I have an insight on her chosen major.... So many looney tunes go into my feild that out of the 20 people in my graduating class from my program I can think of 10 with serious mental health issues of there own. Its a 50/50 split between the crazies and the normal people.

elmaelsiena said...

Oh my word how can someone say the state should take her kids and have familys adopt them!! Do you have children?? SO all family who are on gov help, food stamps ,welfare or live in the getto should have thier children taken away and adopted by families that can afford them? That is sad so so sad. You know maybe these kids will grow up and all turn out to be the most loving wonderful unselfish people in the world.

Traci said...

Ok..well, if you think even single moms should have as many kids as they want that is fine. Maybe we should at LEAST set the standard that they should be able to feed those children without asking for handouts or using school money????? Is that picky? Single women can not properly take care of 8 infants...IMPOSSIBLE. Single women can not take care of 14 kids...IMPOSSIBLE. And crystal brought up an EXCELLENT point, the mom did state she had these children to fill a void...that is selfish.

Traci said...

Well, from the comments on here I have clearly made the wrong choice in life. I have 3 kids (2 adopted and 1 stepson). I always wanted to have about 4-6 but due to the fact getting pregnant has never happened for me and adoption is CRAZY expensive we just decided to "be happy". I think maybe we should go "her route" see how many I end up carrying and then set up a website telling how rough it is and to please donate money. Im sure there are lots of kind hearted people out there since she ahs already brought in 60,000!! Why should I not have MY BIG family too???

meg duerksen said...

i am just trying not to think about her and her craziness. not very helpful but it's just so terrible that i am putting it out of my mind for now.
those poor kids.
why did they let her?!!

Jessica said...

My husband and I have adopted 3 boys. Legally we went through a lot of screening to be able to adopt. There's a required medical exam, financial report, character references, job check, FBI background check with fingerprinting, state background check, home inspection, you have to completely open yourself up for examination. The licensed professionals and agencies approving you are held liable for their decision.

I guess my question is why don't they do that for IVF?

I'm really not happy that my tax dollars are runding her irresponsible lifestyle. All the government programs (as a foster mom I know all about them) will only put a bandaide on the limited emotional and physical resources she has. Ultimately I feel her children will suffer her poor judgement throughout their lives.

Leah S. said...

Nicely put! I agree! They have been talking about it on the radio too. Yesterday's topic was on how the Christian Church Community should respond. The host was saying that the church opposes birth control and abortion but looks down on this lady...and that this is there chance to show compassion by helping her. I dont agree with this perception of the church to begin with. But I say...the mom isnt even supporting those kids. If anyone needs support its the babies/kids and grandparents.

elmaelsiena said...

O.K. what about John and kate plus eight. The first time they had it done the had twins. The second time they had eight. Kate said herself that she wanted one more child but they thought maybe twins again but they sure were not counting on six. So maybe this lady in her own way thought she would only have one or two babies not eight since she had these babys on ice and didn't want to destroy them.Who knows we could talk till we are blue in the face.I guess our tax dollars will help her but there are alot of other things out taxes go for to that we don't agree on. Have agreat day Crystal!!

Traci said...

John and Kate had TWO at home, not SIX, plus there is TWO of them, not ONE. plus they BOTH worked, this lady is unemployed letting others provide for her. BIG, HUGE, DRAMATIC difference!!!!!!!!!!!!

Faith said...

I am mixed on my feelings with this whole thing and this woman. But I am surprised that people keep commenting on the "rights" of the children. Would people be concerned with it if she would have chosen to kill a few? Where would those children's rights have been? I admire her for choosing life for her children, even though I don't like the way she chose to do it. I don't like that I, as a California tax payer, will be footing her bill for these kids. However, it was HER right in this free society. Do I think the doctor was wrong in putting in so many at one time, absolutely, but it was her CHOICE. I find it funny that people choose to allow women to CHOOSE to kill their unborn babies and then flame a woman who CHOOSES to give her unborn babies a chance of life.

elmaelsiena said...

Traci, I never said I thought this is normal or that she should of had more kids. I think she has issues and I know she has no husband or job I do belive her doctor is nuts to.I also do not believe in women having children if they are not married. I think it is super hard in these times to raise children with a mom and dad.

Catherine said...

I don't believe that she can financially, physically, or emotionally care for her children. I think it was a highly irresponsible and selfish decision.

Sarah B. said...

I agree that as Christians we should not be judgemental HOWEVER aren't we to learn from these issues and "talk them out". There are so many factors...no father, no income, the fact that she knew she was not going to have a job and used her settlement money to pay to have all these children leads to the fact that she is not stable. We were given a brain to use, common sense, think about consequences before we make decisions. I just hope that after this they set up more laws and evaluations to use IVF. It is a wonderful thing...but we can't have people taking advantage of it.

b3designs said...

Totally with you on this one. It is absolutely ridiculous. And did you get a load of her manicured FAKE nails. She obviously has extra money to pay for that every month. That just drove me insane. She honestly thinks she and her mother will be able to handle this? I don't only think she worked in a psyche ward, I think she was a resident of a psyche ward after a bad car accident.

In her interview she said she was told of all the risks and knew everything, she said she's an internet junkie and research and researched. She is holding herself fully accountable. I think the dr. should come under fire too, but she is delusional.

Smith Family Blog said...

I think the bashing of this woman is disgusting-- everything from "selfishness" to fake nails. Really? Do we need to stoop that low?

What about compassion?

When confronted with the situation of the adulterous woman (which was undoubtedly a sin), Jesus said that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. He then told the woman to go and sin no more. There is much to be learned there on how our reaction should be.

Where is the love? Where is the compassion? Is this the way we should treat everyone who makes what we believe to be is a wrong decision?

Crystal said...

The woman in question is far from a concern of mine...I think she, as we all, need a lot of prayer. My concern is how her decisions will now affect the lives of fourteen others now...

Each is entitled to their own opinion and we indeed all fall short of the glory of God.

Traci said...

smith family.....so you are ok with a single women who already has 6 kids, no daddy(hes overwhelmed and not ready according to her), doesnt work, using school money to support her kids and then uses money from winning a settlement to go out and get pregnant AGAIN? She already had 6 and has NO way to support herself? She then goes on the internet asking strangers to send money to care for her kids...this is ok with you? Should the church love her? Absolutely. Should people help her with this and that...sure. Should people offer and ear....of course!! Should people lead her to the cross...YES!! Should she set up a website asking people to fund her kids that she went out of way to have when she ALREADY had 6 kids and was unemployed??? She isnt stable...you listen to her talk and she isnt stable...thats clear. In wouldnt shock or surprise me one bit if this family is in crisis in just months down the road. Do I want to see that? NO, I want the best for them and I want each child to feel loved and wanted. When you have that many and mom has deep emotional issues you are going to have a trainwreck.
Just because people dont agree and think her choice is horribly wrong and even disasterous doesnt mean they are unGodly...it means they are realistic

Cherry Tree Lane said...

I have thought so much about it....and my prayer is that the Lord allows each child to grow up and feel loved and valued and special. And not just lost in the fray....

Ashley said...

Didn't she already have 6 kids pre IVF? I think the doctor that did the IVF needs his medical license suspended. That is not right!
Poor children have no one, no father figure. She has no job and welfare doesn't pay well.

It's just sad! But they are gods miracle and deserve to be given a wonderful life. I agree with you on the donating, she should have!

Amy Bell said...

wow...lots of comments to read. i agree with many of you that she should have not, in any way, destroyed the babies. i agree. however, to knowingly put everyone through all the risk and also the babies through all the trauma. i would have hoped she would have put the babies up for adoption. i had a pregnancy in which my son and i went through quite a bit. i was in bed for most of his pregnancy and could not parent my older son. it was tough. tough to just have to lay around and not help him. tough to depend on relatives to help us. and, to see the strain it put on everyone to help us. tough to have one child in the nicu...let alone 8.

thank the Lord we are ok, but to sign up for that again...knowingly? i just could not. tell my mom to come and live with us again...and my kids lose mom for 9 months while i am in bed.go through a high risk pregnancy...twice a week driving for ultrasounds?

i don't think anyone is judging this woman. parenthood is personal. but, the facts are puzzling. especially for me as i have struggled in pregnancy. i would love to have more children. love it. but, the risk is too high. i hope the Lord adds to our family someday through the miracle of adoption.

..just another point of view.

Mummy McTavish said...

Without putting any judgement on this chick, my heart just breaks for what these kids are going to go through in the future after all this media attention. They are mostly too young to understand the negativity towards their mum now but they will hear it and see it in the future. Hate and disgust towards her being made so public in the international media. They will be labeled "those kids" for the rest of their lives. Most likely they will be bullied at school because of things other kids have overheard their parents saying at home.

Don't get me wrong, I think discussions like this are fine, everyone is staying well mannered. It's the news media with a highly biased commentary that is of most concern to me.

I also feel that there should be an investigation into the Doc that was involved and IVF practices in general. Perhaps if something good can come out of all this media it will be governments standing up and paying attention to the lack of regulation in the IVF "industry". Though this would still leave humans regulating humans.

This earth will never be perfect but praise God that He's in control!

Sari said...

I think we all should put as much effort and time into prayer for this woman and all the children. God will take care of it.

Amanda said...

Kuddos is all I'm going to say, because I totally agree!!!

Greg said...

I am enraged about this woman. I am wondering what is wrong with me or what my issue is, that makes me so angry with this woman. Surely we read and hear about child abuse all the time. This is a different form of child abuse, but something about this touches a different side of me. Maybe it is the aspect that she will probably be "self-actualized" and made a celebrity at the expense of so many innocent children.
Melanie

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